Mystery dial on Omega Seamaster "Cross of Merit" 1956 ref. OT 2850

Nov 19, 2014,04:58 AM
 

 I would like to take up a thread that started and also ended in November 2008 in this forum. The thread was obviously related to the Omega Seamaster "Cross of Merit" and it ended with two pictures of the watch that I now own since about two years (at least: I suspect that it was the one I now own as it had the same "strange" dial). The thread ended with the question: "is it a fake"?

I purchased this watch because I got it for a very reasonable price and because I actually like this particular dial more than the "official" ones as I think this is less "gothic", more clean and lean. An un-typical purchase for me as I normally only go for up-front visible- fully detailed and undisputed authenticity.

The experts will know the (few) variations of dials that came with the OT 2850. Given the special dial of mine I did some further exploration including having my watch-maker to remove the dial so that I could take some pictures. So, by now I can share the following facts:

  • Omega extract of archives confirms a match of the cal 471 movement number belonging to the case number of this watch. Production date is stated to be June 11, 1956. Interestingly it confirms to be the Cross of Merit commemorative watch, but under the item "dial" it says: "not mentioned"
  • The dial is made by Z.J. Fluckiger, one of the specialist dial makers used by Omega at the time.

 If you look at the close up pictures of the dial, it is clear that this is not one of those "Thai-versions" nor the "index-markers-glued-onto-the-dial" type of stuff: the Cross of Merit emblem stands 3D-like out of the dial, it is very detailed and very precise. But then we all seem to know that Omega started to use the baton/onyx type of dials at the earliest at around 1958.

So, the big question is of course: fake (I guess not), prototype (?), custom made upon request as later replacement (must have been expensive?), other? Food for thought. Whatever the outcome, I really like this watch with this particular dial. But I am very curious to hear your comments, theories and feed-backs.

Cheers 

 





















This message has been edited by HSTE on 2014-11-19 05:09:43


More posts: Seamaster

  login to reply

Comments: view entire thread

 

I don't believe the crown is either correct . . .

 
 By: Dr No : November 20th, 2014-13:58
. . . or original to the watch, and the same goes for the hands, too. There's at least one current third party dial maker that refinishes XVI dials. My sense is the dial of this one came from another watch, and was refinished to fit an original SM XVI cas... 

We may never know....

 
 By: mondodec : November 21st, 2014-04:39
But, as you say it is from a known Omega dial maker, although the XVI dials do not have the multiple ZJ embossing on the reverse, and my feeling is that it is not refinished. There are variations of XVI dials including a solid gold version, but this is th... 

That seems the most likely explanation, Desmond. One could imagine . . .

 
 By: Dr No : November 21st, 2014-09:49
. . . a XVI sent in for service way back when with a cracked dial. After rummaging around the parts bin and finding none of the correct dials available, they might well have tapped a reject or prototype instead. Most cordially, Art

More pics, not sure they help...

 
 By: HSTE : November 22nd, 2014-01:30
Thank you Desmond for sharing your wealth of knowledge, your thoughts are very very interesting. I tried to take some makros from the original size pictures, not sure this helps as to the question of lacquer or paint. Best regards, HSTE ...  

Yes,

 
 By: mondodec : November 22nd, 2014-05:14
my feeling is that this is a painted dial. Not being able to see it under a loupe, I still think it's thinner than lacquered dials I've seen. So service replacement or sample are the two best options I can come up with. It certainly does look a fine piece... 

Omega Olympic

 
 By: maxbliss888 : January 23rd, 2015-07:45
It toke me much efforts to find these two versions of the Omega. Hope it could shield some lights in the discussion. ...  

Omega

 
 By: maxbliss888 : January 23rd, 2015-07:50
At the back of each watches, there were name engraved of the receipents.. ...  

I don´t want to rain on the parade, but...

 
 By: mac_omega : January 23rd, 2015-22:14
Hi Max, I don´t want to rain on the parade, but (as far as can be judged by the small picture) the right watch in your photo does not have a dial in original condition - it is an obvious re-dial.

Omega olympic watch

 
 By: maxbliss888 : January 24th, 2015-07:07
I wouldn't mind your rain as I feel happy with the watch as it was a gift... ...  

Questionable Omega

 
 By: maxbliss888 : January 23rd, 2015-08:07
These are questionable dials ...  

Photo from Omega

 
 By: maxbliss888 : January 23rd, 2015-08:51
Photo from Omega ...  

Baton dial xvi. another one.

 
 By: michael e : April 8th, 2017-03:01
A bit of a thread resurrection here. For future reference, just in case someone else has one of these watches with this dial. I have only seen a few of these dials in many years of collecting. Here is another one. Thanks Michael ...  

What a beautiful piece and great dial :) , going from the initial post by HSTE and now your piece, I tend to think that they are some type of prototype dial. With no further info. Archive wise, I guess we are open to speculation [nt]

 
 By: Rogi : April 8th, 2017-05:43
Although I tend to speculate for prototype, they were certainly built in smaller quantaties. Heres an old shot of my Pink Gold XVI (probably replacement dial, but comfirmed Omega dial by my watchmaker) but it has an interesting delivery location and date ...  

Here's an old image from my files . . .

 
 By: Dr No : April 10th, 2017-23:34
. . . of an original (save the crown) pink gold XVI. [my wrist, JI's Ω, davudvl's photo ca '05] Note the hands; I don't recall seeing pink gold originals for sale recently, but they would be worth searching for. Art ...  

JI's is the perfect combo, all original, but I couldn't bear wearing that piece if I ever found it :D I was searching for the "Automatic" script version for a while now.

 
 By: Rogi : April 11th, 2017-06:41
JI's is a beautiful example of the first dial (of the non-Olympic cross versions) that is more common and the crown missing, well it happens they live rough lives but it is beautiful in what some would call "imperfection' it gives the piece character. I h...  

There was a full set pink gold XVI on eBay a few years back . . .

 
 By: Dr No : April 11th, 2017-13:56
. . . that went for ~ $4K US. I wonder what level this one is going to reach. Art