Pilot watches

Sep 29, 2014,02:29 AM
 

I question the quoted number of these Omega watches produced for the RAF. Was it really that few? In the 1950’s and 1960’s there must have been more pilots requiring 5,900 new Omega watches in the RAF. Not just those in the front line but also all those under training, their instructors and those officers of senior ranks who still had to maintain flying standards. Many of the larger aeroplanes carried two pilots. There was also the additional stock of pilot watches held in stores around the UK and at many overseas bases. Other aircrew (navigators, flight engineers etc) were issued with smaller diameter military issue watches.

Before my 1962 pilot training I was issued with one of these watches and was told it was accurate to within 10 seconds per day. If the daily rate exceeded that limit, I had to exchange the watch. I did exchange mine twice during my military flying career that finished in 1971.

My pilot watches had a rough time. They were dunked in the cold sea on air-sea rescue exercises and at the monthly dinghy drills held in local swimming pools. They were knocked about on survival training and lengthy escape-and-evasion exercises.

We often considered these watches as crude and bulky, especially when their straps were canvas ones after the Bonklip bracelets were withdrawn. Many of us did not wish to be identified as officers and pilots while in a civilian atmosphere, especially when abroad or just socialising “off base”. It was the “cold war”.

Many of my colleagues in the long range air transport role bought our own watches where it was considered very useful to have a date function. We became used to the 10 seconds per day expected accuracy and often bought mechanical Seiko watches from foreign dealers. I still have my Seiko 5 day/date with its lovely gun-metal blue dial bought in Singapore in 1969. It was very accurate at that time but now lives in its original box with little wrist-time and needs a service.

Sadly I had to hand back my pilot watch when I retired from the RAF in 1971. I had grown to like it, especially when I replaced the canvas strap for a steel bracelet. It prompted my love of Omega watches at a young age such that I bought a used calibre 561 Constellation in 1973 from an impoverished colleague. I cherish my (one of the special 100,000 on its original BOR bracelet) Constellation, but that is another story.

With good wishes to vintage Omega lovers.


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Omega 2777-1: my quick review of this military issue amagnetic chronometer

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 27th, 2014-08:29
I thought now that I had made the leap of faith and finally purchased my first vintage Omega, it would be good to add a little more colour to the watch. There is a certain aura with British military watches. To be fair, there is an aura to most military w...  

Does yours have the inner ring surrounding the dust cover?

 
 By: amanico : September 27th, 2014-08:56
We are not far from perfection, to me. Yes, I've read that some saw it as the first Railmaster. Others state that it was the first amagnetic, forgetting that 5 years before, the JLC Mark 11 was issued... But hey, what's the most important? To own a Watch ... 

I will....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 28th, 2014-02:12
.....need to open her up. I know it has the standard outer casing, but not sure I know what you mean by the inner ring surround...I will open up

Baron, I agree with Nicolas - well played indeed.

 
 By: CaliforniaJed : September 27th, 2014-09:59
I am more an Omega novice than you, but for what it is worth, it''s a very desireable watch when measured by my own standards of desireabilitiy! One question -- could you share with us the source of your research with respect to this watch? I would like t... 

Research?

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 28th, 2014-02:11
As a beginner...and really am a beginner, I relied on some tips from guys who had already done a lot of research. For example, a certain Italian gave me the hint that the dial on my 2777-1 was a MoD issue because of the replacement of radium. The internet... 

Great write up, Baron!

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : September 27th, 2014-11:25
Great catch - again, congratulation! :) Best Blomman

Thanks Blomman.....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 28th, 2014-02:22
. ......i am learning some scooping skills from you!

Collecting Omega? . . .

 
 By: Dr No : September 28th, 2014-01:52
. . . might as well start at the top! I didn't get the allure of military issues immediately; it took several years. You're quick on the uptake. PS - Vegas has the odds at 5:1 you'll find a chronometer by the end of the year

Caesar's Palace is quoting . . .

 
 By: Dr No : September 28th, 2014-17:13
. . . on 30T2(SC)rg's only ;-) . . .

Very nice Omega 'Fat Arrow'...

 
 By: SteveW : September 28th, 2014-02:35
...in amazingly good condition. I have been wearing several Omegas based on the 30mm movement recently and I am amazed how well these 70+ year old movements work. One small voice of dissent: the Cal 283 wasn't outfitted as a chronometer movement - the MoD... 

Question to experts..... (Zirtual/SteveW)

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 28th, 2014-03:28
.......I have read many places that the 2777-1 has a chronometer grade movement. SteveW suggests that this is not the case....Zirtual makes the exact opposite point. From the research I have looked at, the RAF53s have a chronometer grade movement, but I a... 

Cal 283 was not made exclusively for the 2777

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : September 28th, 2014-04:27
Here is another of my lesser known Omegas: CK 2640, Cal 283. Could it be that some of the models using the Cal 283 movements were Chronometer certified? This one is not... Best Blomman ...  

far from being an expert

 
 By: ztirual : September 28th, 2014-05:39
Hi Baron, Herunder a couple of sources on the ck2777 being a chronometer grade movement. It can probably be found stated many other places, but I simply do not remember where. I own a thin arrow and I remember having checked that point when I acquired it.... 

Zirtual, that is fantastic provenance for your view!

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 28th, 2014-05:54
Looks conclusive to me. And great to have some of that history reproduced. No problem with the associated weblink....I am not trying to sell my watch!! ...and there is no commercial angle to providing this information...its a quest for knowledge and its v... 

You're welcome, Joe!

 
 By: ztirual : September 28th, 2014-11:02
Again congrats on your far… here is my tar for company. Notice the absence of rail track, not common but also legit. Best Z' ...  

Superb specimen, Senor Zorro. ;)

 
 By: amanico : September 28th, 2014-11:08
I didn't know this dial! Best, Nicolas

ztirual, the dial in your watch is not legit MoD issue. it is a later repaint; done.....

 
 By: watch.out1 : September 29th, 2014-20:39
in the UK when the Omegas were auctioned by the MoD and many , many spares were auctioned too. cases,dials,movements,hands, everything for peannuts. there were a few bigger dealers, who bought the lot from the MoD. and had dials repainted. that is the "T ... 

Thanks Achim

 
 By: ztirual : September 30th, 2014-00:25
You might well be right on a 1956 re-dial. Very blurry skies, not to say muddy water, around some of those thin arrow versions. Something I will need to investigate when I have time. Best regards

Much remains cloudy after all this time.

 
 By: SteveW : September 28th, 2014-08:27
But this seems clear. The 30mm chronometer movements were the Calibers 30T2Rg, 30T2RgSc (small seconds and centre seconds respectively) which were later in 1949 renumbered to Cals 262 and 281. The chronometers used special parts, including the hairspring,...  

There is an error...

 
 By: mac_omega : October 3rd, 2014-04:09
Hi Steve, There is an error in Ranfft´s database. There is no such Cal. as 30 SC - the center sec. 30mm movements started with 30 SC T1 whereas there was Cal. 30, then 30 T1 best Erich

After sifting thru available sources . . .

 
 By: Dr No : September 28th, 2014-12:28
. . . it's my sense that the 'chronometer grade' appellation given to various Omega military issue references is probably related to contractual arrangements that specified tight tolerances for delivered goods. As Steve has already clarified, the level of...  

Hello Art,

 
 By: ztirual : September 28th, 2014-15:10
Do you have A journey trough time, by Marco Richon? I don't. But a friend tells me that it is written that this caliber 30T3, cal 283 with centred second, was adjusted in four positions to keep accurate time to 10 seconds a day, which is chronometer stand... 

Unfortunately, no, z, I don't own a copy . . .

 
 By: Dr No : September 28th, 2014-16:18
. . . but as Bill's post from several years back attests, there were special versions of the cal 283 fitted with swan's neck regulators that would merit chronometer description, in contrast to specimens like blomman's with plain stick regulators. Let's wa... 

Do not expect fine tuning/ regulating

 
 By: ztirual : September 28th, 2014-23:24
mechanism on those Raf 53. Yes you are right 1/ No chronometric inscriptions on the dial (just as the other military of the time) or on the movement 2/ No certification with Bulletin de Marche. Remember Omega were busy producing the very first Constellati...  

What I love about vintage collecting is the

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 29th, 2014-00:47
uncertainty! Where do I go with this? I'm going with Zirtual! If Omega call it a chronometer, that's good enough for my biased view. LOL You gotta love vintage

Thanks H....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 28th, 2014-09:55
.....like you, I have a main body of collection (for me Rolex), but it is nice to have satellite collections in various manufacturers...and I think Omega offers something quite different and special.

Pilot watches

 
 By: chippytime : September 29th, 2014-02:29
I question the quoted number of these Omega watches produced for the RAF. Was it really that few? In the 1950’s and 1960’s there must have been more pilots requiring 5,900 new Omega watches in the RAF. Not just those in the front line but also all those u... 

I think one of the main reasons why military watches are so . . .

 
 By: Dr No : September 29th, 2014-13:43
. . . popular amongst collectors is mentioned in your reply: they weren't granted to personnel, but issued . . . kinda like rifles. When a collector acquires one, they're getting not only a watch, but also a slice of a nation's patrimony. Thanks for joini... 

A couple of things.....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 1st, 2014-00:52
First, some confirmation regarding the issue of 5900 watches. Like Comex, when a watch is issued, it doesn't necessarily stay with the same person, but rather gets circulated around to a number of individuals over time. Not sure who to credit for the foll...  

RAF pilot watches and straps

 
 By: chippytime : October 1st, 2014-03:24
It was easy to fit my Japanese made steel deployment bracelet, bought in 1960's and which I still have (I am a hoarder even though that bracelet is crude and will never be used by me). The ends are open and were placed around the fixed bars and the ends c... 

forgot something........

 
 By: watch.out1 : October 1st, 2014-07:50
in the world of military issued watches the actual numbers on the watch do not reflect the ordered numbers. the numbers on the watch reflect the issued watches in total in that year. ( omega;IWC;jaeger;smith...... name it) kind regards. achim

mmhhhh ...

 
 By: marcello pisani : October 1st, 2014-09:05
not exactly : the delivery number in MOD watches is progressive and doesn't begin from zero each new year . so for example 3456/74 means that a particular watch ( identified through his NSN or his own MOD code ) is the 3456th delivered from the beginning ... 

Bonklip....

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : October 1st, 2014-15:38
Every collector should have at least one...! ;) Best Blomman ...  

credit for the factory receipt...........

 
 By: watch.out1 : October 1st, 2014-07:47
that came from Mr. Diethelm from the factory. Bill Sohne and myself got it from him. many years ago........... kind regards. achim

Thanks for giving the correct credit....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 1st, 2014-08:38
.....great information on this watch.

Beautiful addition

 
 By: cisco : September 29th, 2014-06:28
Very discrete with a lot of "content", sure you will love it. Enjoy François

Great post dear Joe! Lots of interesting information about...

 
 By: Subexplorer : October 1st, 2014-13:54
... military watches, and of course a lovely Omega you got. Thank you for sharing all this knowledge friends! Very cordially, Abel.