We may never know....

Nov 21, 2014,04:39 AM
 

But, as you say it is from a known Omega dial maker, although the XVI dials do not have the multiple ZJ embossing on the reverse, and my feeling is that it is not refinished. There are variations of XVI dials including a solid gold version, but this is the first one I have seen with these markers.  They are properly riveted and no glue is evident, suggesting an original dial.


As with any model - even limited editions - an inventory of parts is produced to service the watch.  One possibility is that it is indeed a service replacement dial.  Another possibility is that it is a reject from the dial maker that has somehow made its way out of the reject box.  

It is recorded that a former prototype maker for Omega, John-Pierre Mathey-Claudet, was the person commissioned to produce the dials for the Cross of Merit, but he would have been supplied with blanks upon which to produce the coloured design. The dial maker made the dial blanks with the reverse embossed Olympic Cross motif. Then the Chinese/Japanese lacquering process would be undertaken by Mathey-Claudette. The layers of dial ground would be built up layer by layer, and that's possibly a clue, because I'm not sure your dial is Chinese lacquer. After the lacquer build-up, M-C would  render the outlines of the motif in gold.  The last part of the process would be the produce either the multi-coloured or red Olympic rings.  The possible clue is that if the dial is not Chinese lacquer, then it may never have reached M-C and that leads me to the following. 

Gerald Genta told me some years ago when I put some questions to him about his time at Omega in the later Fifties and early Sixties that until the late 1950s watch case and dial design was a fairly laissez faire process, with suppliers providing a range of examples made up to reflect their current ideas and Omega's head of the Design Depart, Pierre Moinat, and other executives making a choice from available designs. So it is conceivable that your dial could be one of several examples produced for approval but rejected.  So it could be one of the 'mock ups' or samples produced before the choice was made to go for the dial with the coffin markers. 

 But how it got into your watch I think will remain a mystery.  About ten years ago, a Swiss merchant was selling real, but imperfect Omega dials for Constellations and other models. Some had damaged or missing dial feet and others had other, sometimes almost imperceptible, flaws.  I remember emailing him and asking how he came to have these dials and he refused to answer.  I suspect they may have found their way out the back door of either Omega or a defunct dial maker. So, your dial may have come from a similar source.

We'd need to see bigger pics of the dial to ascertain whether the dial is indeed painted and not lacquered, but the chafe marks at six o'clock seem to show a thin painted layer and not a thicker Chinese lacquering process.  But it's worth investigating, if only to feed Erich's and my curiosity smile    I think that out of all the possible explanations the idea that this was a sample is the most plausible, even though it may never been proved.

Regards

Desmond  


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Mystery dial on Omega Seamaster "Cross of Merit" 1956 ref. OT 2850

 
 By: HSTE : November 19th, 2014-04:58
I would like to take up a thread that started and also ended in November 2008 in this forum. The thread was obviously related to the Omega Seamaster "Cross of Merit" and it ended with two pictures of the watch that I now own since about two years (at leas...  

I don't believe the crown is either correct . . .

 
 By: Dr No : November 20th, 2014-13:58
. . . or original to the watch, and the same goes for the hands, too. There's at least one current third party dial maker that refinishes XVI dials. My sense is the dial of this one came from another watch, and was refinished to fit an original SM XVI cas... 

We may never know....

 
 By: mondodec : November 21st, 2014-04:39
But, as you say it is from a known Omega dial maker, although the XVI dials do not have the multiple ZJ embossing on the reverse, and my feeling is that it is not refinished. There are variations of XVI dials including a solid gold version, but this is th... 

That seems the most likely explanation, Desmond. One could imagine . . .

 
 By: Dr No : November 21st, 2014-09:49
. . . a XVI sent in for service way back when with a cracked dial. After rummaging around the parts bin and finding none of the correct dials available, they might well have tapped a reject or prototype instead. Most cordially, Art

More pics, not sure they help...

 
 By: HSTE : November 22nd, 2014-01:30
Thank you Desmond for sharing your wealth of knowledge, your thoughts are very very interesting. I tried to take some makros from the original size pictures, not sure this helps as to the question of lacquer or paint. Best regards, HSTE ...  

Yes,

 
 By: mondodec : November 22nd, 2014-05:14
my feeling is that this is a painted dial. Not being able to see it under a loupe, I still think it's thinner than lacquered dials I've seen. So service replacement or sample are the two best options I can come up with. It certainly does look a fine piece... 

Omega Olympic

 
 By: maxbliss888 : January 23rd, 2015-07:45
It toke me much efforts to find these two versions of the Omega. Hope it could shield some lights in the discussion. ...  

Omega

 
 By: maxbliss888 : January 23rd, 2015-07:50
At the back of each watches, there were name engraved of the receipents.. ...  

I don´t want to rain on the parade, but...

 
 By: mac_omega : January 23rd, 2015-22:14
Hi Max, I don´t want to rain on the parade, but (as far as can be judged by the small picture) the right watch in your photo does not have a dial in original condition - it is an obvious re-dial.

Omega olympic watch

 
 By: maxbliss888 : January 24th, 2015-07:07
I wouldn't mind your rain as I feel happy with the watch as it was a gift... ...  

Questionable Omega

 
 By: maxbliss888 : January 23rd, 2015-08:07
These are questionable dials ...  

Photo from Omega

 
 By: maxbliss888 : January 23rd, 2015-08:51
Photo from Omega ...  

Baton dial xvi. another one.

 
 By: michael e : April 8th, 2017-03:01
A bit of a thread resurrection here. For future reference, just in case someone else has one of these watches with this dial. I have only seen a few of these dials in many years of collecting. Here is another one. Thanks Michael ...  

What a beautiful piece and great dial :) , going from the initial post by HSTE and now your piece, I tend to think that they are some type of prototype dial. With no further info. Archive wise, I guess we are open to speculation [nt]

 
 By: Rogi : April 8th, 2017-05:43
Although I tend to speculate for prototype, they were certainly built in smaller quantaties. Heres an old shot of my Pink Gold XVI (probably replacement dial, but comfirmed Omega dial by my watchmaker) but it has an interesting delivery location and date ...  

Here's an old image from my files . . .

 
 By: Dr No : April 10th, 2017-23:34
. . . of an original (save the crown) pink gold XVI. [my wrist, JI's Ω, davudvl's photo ca '05] Note the hands; I don't recall seeing pink gold originals for sale recently, but they would be worth searching for. Art ...  

JI's is the perfect combo, all original, but I couldn't bear wearing that piece if I ever found it :D I was searching for the "Automatic" script version for a while now.

 
 By: Rogi : April 11th, 2017-06:41
JI's is a beautiful example of the first dial (of the non-Olympic cross versions) that is more common and the crown missing, well it happens they live rough lives but it is beautiful in what some would call "imperfection' it gives the piece character. I h...  

There was a full set pink gold XVI on eBay a few years back . . .

 
 By: Dr No : April 11th, 2017-13:56
. . . that went for ~ $4K US. I wonder what level this one is going to reach. Art