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dmcwilliams
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1957 Seamaster with 5 digit serial number

Hello all...some of you may remember my post of August 11, 2009 concerning a 1957 Omega Seamaster that I obtained that had a unique 5 digit serial number on the bridge of the movement. I contacted Omega in Switzerland and Mr John Diethelm was kind enough to answer some of my questions concerning the watch. In summary, he stated that Omega never delivered a movement with a 5 digit number and that his staff could not come up with a logical explanation for the #87810 number stamped on the bridge plate. He was kind enough to advise that they thought the watch was not a special batch watch assembled in the UK and that the dial with the retailers name (JD Crichton, Edinburgh) was added by the retailer after delivery ie; Tiffany's, Turler, etc. The mystery still continues concerning the 5 digit serial number...

Question ? Was the bridge of the 501 movement interchangeable with other manufacturers' movements?....is it possible the part was taken from a non Omega movement? I have attached John Diethelms response as weil the pics of the movement and watch. Maybe John and Desmond (he originally thought the number may be a replacement part) and you all can offer some additional thoughts. Thanks again,, Dave McWilliams

(from Omega Bienne)

Dear Sir,

We have submitted your request to our technicians in order to find out the correct and original identification of the movement of your OMEGA «Seamaster» ref. KO 2846 – 14 gold cap on stainless steel case back – cal. 501 (sweep central second hand) – it is now clear, we have never engraved an official Omega movement with “87810” – we have started in the year 1894 with the # 1’000’000 on the first pocket watch movements of cal. 19’’’ and cannot identify the reason or origin of such a small movement number like “87810”.

There is also evident, that Omega has delivered the complete case to our Agents in UK – no “special assembly” at the times, since this has in fact only started with the original movements delivered “bare” and then fitted in a case of 9K gold “made in UK” – this was then early 60’s

We have never delivered at any times an OMEGA movement without having engraved a movement number on it, hence no agent has the right to engrave such movement number by itself or would ever tried to make such “alteration” on the movement plates.

As previously indicated, we have certainly delivery the illustrated dial “as is“ but without the name of the retailer; such names have been applied by the importing agent but mostly this was then done by the retailer himself after having received the complete watch from our agents. You find, therefore, the name “Meister” for watches sold in Zurich bei “Uhren Meister” or also the name “Türler” might be shown on the dial=purchased at “Türler jewellers” in Zurich. Same applies for the Omega watches purchased in New York at “Tiffany’s”.

OMEGA Bienne does not keep records about “retailers” as we have never made any deliveries directly to a retailer – our strict delivery policy refers only to delivery of original OMEGA watches to one and official importer for each country. Such “Agent” was then responsible for the advertising, marketing and supply of Omega watches in his country.

Hope sincerely these information will have been of help.

Best regards

John R. Diethelm

Historical Consultant
OMEGA MUSEUM - Vintage Information

OMEGA SA
RUE STAMPFLI 96
2500 BIENNE 4
SWITZERLAND
T. +41 (0)32 343 97 04
F. +41 (0)32 343 98 70

[Email address suppressed for privacy]
www.omegawatches.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

De : David McWilliams [[Email address suppressed for privacy]]
Envoyé : samedi, 22. août 2009 20:30
À : Diethelm, John R.
Objet : RE: McWILLIAMS, David / yr enquiry dtd Aug. 18, 2009 - Omega Seamaster

Dear Mr. Diethelm,

Many thanks for your comprehensive reply. I have again looked at the watch and have confirmed that the watch case back does show “Swiss Made”, as opposed to your suggestion that case was made elsewhere. I have attached a few photos of the gold capped watch case, case back, dial and movement showing the stamped serial number of #87810. Caliber 501 is stamped on the movement as well as this unique 5 digit serial number. If you would be so kind, I have the following additional questions:

If indeed the case was made in Switzerland (marked as such in the photo), would Omega UK have been supplied the Swiss cases for installation of the bare movement?
If so, would Omega UK then have stamped the unique 5 digit serial number (#87810) on the 501 caliber movement (marked as such on the movement), if final assembly of the watch was completed in the UK with totally Swiss components? Was this a common practice in the 1950’s and did Omega UK purchase components for assembly in the UK? Was there a particular reason that Omega UK would have ordered components (cases, movements, dials) and assembled them in the UK during the post World War II era as opposed to ordering completed watches from Switzerland?
Are there historical records of Omega UK, assembling watches with Swiss components (cases, movements and dials) and stamping a unique (5 digit) UK serial number on the movement?
Would the dial with the UK retailers’ name (J.D. Crichton, Edinburgh) have been supplied by the Omega factory as a special order dial? The watch dial shows “Swiss Made” below the 6 o’clock position on the dial. The dial is original and has not been refinished.
Does Omega Switzerland have any historical records regarding the retailer, J. D. Crichton, Edinburgh, as being an authorized retailer of Omega watches in Scotland in the 1950’s, as well as any information concerning Omega UK national production?

Without removing the dial and hands from the movement, I cannot confirm if there is an additional 8 digit Omega serial number stamped on the movement. I may be able to confirm at a later date. I sincerely hope that the photos will help you identify the watch and it’s history more definitively. I very much appreciate your assistance and hope that this request is not too bothersome. I look forward to your reply to the above questions after having viewed the photos.

Best Regards

David McWilliams

-----Original Message-----
From: Diethelm, John R. [[Email address suppressed for privacy]]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:28 AM
To: [Email address suppressed for privacy]
Cc: Monachon, Alain
Subject: McWILLIAMS, David / yr enwquiry dtd Aug. 18, 2009

Dear Sir,

Every genuine OMEGA movement has been produced and identified with an 8-digits number, visibly engraved on the main movement plate.

"vintage" watches might also have this number engraved on the movement, but only visible when the hands and dial are removed.

The indicated # 87810 does not fit with any original product though this might be an identification engraved buy the makers of the cases and this is not a number which is registered or of any help.

· OMEGA – Seamaster – gents line – international Collection 1958

· Water-resistant case with armoured hesalite glass,

· press-on case back, "O" ring gasket

· automatic rotor movement of cal. 28 or new cal. 491 - 19 jewels – sub-second hand at 6 o’clock position

· For your information, the case ref 2846-2848 - having a case Ø 34 mm - was produced in the following versions:

1. CK - stainless steel

2. KO - 14K gold-cap bezel on stainless steel case

3. OJ - 14K solid gold

4. OT - 18K solid gold

When having a case reference “2848” – then this has an automatic rotor mvt of cal. 491 – sub-second

Or a case reference “2846” – then this has an automatic rotor mvt of cal. 501 – central sweep second hand

Without having received from you the indispensable 8-digit movement number, we cannot confirm the watch reference or the production date, and assume, therefore, that the said “watch case” is not “made in Switzerland”, though genuine OMEGA but then to be considered as a national production.

A retailer’s name on the dial (refers certainly to a retailer in UK, to indicate where the watch has to be returned for possible repairs…)leads to make believe that this movement has been produced and delivered as “bare” movement of cal. 501 to UK, then fitted in a case “made in UK” and for which we do not have any further details made available.

Best regards

John R. Diethelm
Historical Consultant
OMEGA MUSEUM - Vintage Information

OMEGA SA

RUE STAMPFLI 96

2500 BIENNE 4

SWITZERLAND

T. +41 (0)32 343 97 04

F. +41 (0)32 343 98 70

[Email address suppressed for privacy]

www.omegawatches.com

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